Game For Thought - How Much Violence is Too Much Violence?

For the panel, John MacInnes, Jessica Murrey, Suzanne Freyjadis and Pablo Mata Gámez were invited to share their insights, while Allie Weis moderated.

Check out the full video here:

The history of violence in videogames

Suzanne Freyjadis: I think the conversation first sparked around the time of Mortal Kombat's release because it introduced violence and gore as a key selling point. And what's interesting to see is that it has become even more realistic-looking and yet over-the-top, but people aren't raising a fuss over it anymore. The ripping out of someone's spine has almost become normalized, whereas it was shocking at the time of release. Violence as a whole has become more prevalent in all forms of media.

John MacInnes: In Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, there is this much-discussed moment where you mow down civilians in an airport ("No Russian") and it reignited the discussion of violence because it was aimed at innocents. Ripping out someone's spine in the 90s now seems bizarrely innocent compared to what we get these days. Violence has become a natural part of the evolution of videogames.

Pablo Mata Gámez: We also saw the discussion light up again in 2018, when Donald Trump was in office and he tried to blame videogames for the school shootings that were happening in the US.

What do we mean, when we talk about "violence"?

Jessica Murrey: Before I was the co-founder of Wicked Saint Studios, I was an international peacebuilder telling stories about campaigns of violence. Before that, I talked about anti-child abuse, anti-domestic abuse, anti-sexual abuse, and had to tell stories of bad things, after they happened, so I wanted to find a way to stop bad things before they happen. This led me to work for Search For Common Ground, an organisation working against genocide, and which tries to prevent mass atrocities, violent extremism and more.

The game we're working on now, World Reborn, is designed to empower young people and help them to handle whatever life throws at them, but also to prevent and stop violence. We defined five types: Emotional, Physical, Structural, Societal or Sexual violence. Often the longest-lasting scars are not from physical assault, but from the emotional impact suffered. There are many different types, but instead of defining how much is too much, we try to stop violence altogether through the themes in our game.

Our approach is to attack the problem, not the person. We see conflict as an indicator that there is a problem. Conflict isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just a part of being human, but if someone chooses to handle that problem violently or destructively, that's bad. Conflict can also be an opportunity to improve something. You can choose to de-escalate a situation, or work together with an enemy until they become an ally and prevent further harm.

John MacInnes: I work on Call of Duty as a screenwriter, and there is a motivation in this game to engage or re-enact violence, but the bigger question is what the effect is. We talked about politicians scapegoating violent videogames as the problem. I'm the father to a 11yo son, so I'm very aware of the potential implications of young people playing such games, but it's not like Putin or Hamas or Benjamin Netanyahu and their violence was formed by playing Call of Duty. The consumers of violent videogames come from all walks of life. Here in the UK there is a minimal amount of gun-crime, and with that no reason to point at videogames as the culprit.

Pablo Mata Gámez: I'm a DAE student but I'm also a graduate in Psychology and some of my research has been on the topic of violence in videogames. And usually the real factor of causing people to act violently is a history of seeing violence within their own family, structural violence or being bullied. We have no solid scientific evidence that videogames cause violence in the real world, in fact we have studies that say the opposite.

Jessica Murrey: Games are also very powerful at simulating experiences or putting people in a safe position, but still letting them go through those scenarios and see the different options available to them. The more fantasy in a game, the more dissonance there is. But if you place them in a realistic situation, people could imagine themselves living through that in real life, and those game experiences can transfer over and have a very real impact on their decisions in life.

How is violence in games different versus other media?

Suzanne Freyjadis: Games are more immersive. You get to interact directly with your setting and surroundings. You're not just watching or reading about it, you're actively participating. This can help people truly grasp or understand the horrors of being in the middle of a military action or a massacre, and give players a cathartic experience that you can't get from film.

Jessica Murrey: We have become more desensitized through seeing violence across all media. But the reason I moved on from stories on a screen to games is to give players that immersive experience and to empower them. Behaviour change doesn't happen by giving people information, it happens through experiences. Storytelling is a powerful method to achieve that, but it's amplified further if you get to make your own interactive choices, and you get to experience the consequences of your actions, but in a safe fantasy world.

Suzanne Freyjadis: People experience a release of stress from playing a stressful game. You're in a really intense situation, but then it's over and you're still safe. Violence has always been present in our society, and playing through such scenarios can help people work through their issues.

Should games be censored or regulated?

John MacInnes: Social media has evolved rapidly over the past few years with little to no censorship. Your kids could be scrolling through their feed and suddenly see sensitive content that you wouldn't be OK with as a parent. Yet today, our kids are seeing real-time videos of combat happening in Ukraine. There is no filter and this kind of content is readily available to everybody.

In games, we could potentially filter some of this by enabling modifications through the settings. My son was playing a medieval VR game and was able to cut off the limbs of his opponents, with lots of accompanying gore. Being able to make that less visual by disabling a blood or gore toggle could have an impact. But it's mostly important for parents to talk to their kids about their online and virtual experiences and stay in tune with how they experience things.

Games have an age rating, and they force you to read a lot of User Agreement Licence text. Even when we make games in Unreal, we have to agree to abide by the content we add to the game being in tune with the age rating we're going for. But in practice, it's impossible to uphold it and prevent kids from gaining access to such games. You can't prevent your children from listening to music with profanity, but it's important to engage in a debate with them about it. We're not raising children, we're raising future adults.

Suzanne Freyjadis: I think the rating system is mostly important for people who aren't in the gaming industry*. Just like in movies, they can still act as a guideline and enable conversations.

*Editor's Note: In Belgium, we have Speelhetslim/Jouezmalin which is a website that guides (grand)parents as well as supervisors and teachers through the world of video games.

Jessica Murrey: Once you've seen something, you can't unsee it, so there is some value to keeping your kids "innocent", but parents are incorrectly censoring a ton of things to their kids from education to history and beyond. Our challenge as videogame makers is to make games that are fun, but empowering, so that people who play them can feel confident to engage in a discussion about the topic.

We tested a short demo from our game, and 80% of teens stated they felt more confident to engage in a conversation about race after playing it. Where the world is often censoring the wrong things, we have these really cool opportunities in games to broadcast marginalized voices. We're all trying to beat our bias and that's a power that games have, they can offer new experiences that help rewire our brains and stop us from jumping to hastily drawn conclusions.

If we give kids more options as to what kind of entertainment to engage with, we'll see a lot of good come out of it. Games are fun and an easy way to get dopamine: pull the trigger and a head explodes. That gives you immediate feedback and the player is motivated to keep going. But even in non-violent games, we need to find ways to give that kind of satisfaction so players opt in to keep going.

Suzanne Freyjadis: It also matters who perpetrates the violence versus who is the victim. If you engage in combat in a war game, I find it less offensive than when you pay a prostitute in Grand Theft Auto and then beat them to get your money back. I only want to shoot the bad guys. There needs to be a strong moral argument made for who I'm attacking.

Pablo Mata Gámez: That's indeed interesting because that's why zombies, Nazis or monsters are such an easy enemy. We've all agreed that the opponent is inherently evil so it's OK to react violently*.

*editor's note: The information available to the player at the time also plays a huge role in this. When you shoot the white phosphorus in Spec Ops: The Line, you still think it's for your own survival and aimed at the bad guys. It's only when you learn about the truth and that civilians are harmed that it feels like a punch to the gut and you feel bad about it.

n this Game For Thought Panel, we've established why it's important to engage in a conversation about violence in games and we encourage everyone to keep talking about this topic and for game developers to keep a conscientious mind about the effect of it on their players.

About Game For Thought

Game For Thought (GFT) is a livestream series launched by Howest - Digital Arts and Entertainment (DAE) in collaboration with local medialab Quindo and sponsored by Vlaams Audiovisueel Fonds (VAF), it tackles ethically-relevant topics in the games industry and explores the impact & implications of industry developments. Each broadcast, Allie Weis, ethics coordinator at Howest DAE, invites a selection of industry experts to discuss the topic at hand.

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